Virilneus’ GS4 Idea Book

The foraging system is broke. Unlike any other major system in the game there exists an antiquated large professional bias system that is unneeded in today’s game. This system was created well over 15 years ago to suit a much different environment than what GS4 is today.

HISTORY OF THE PROBLEM

Originally way back when there was no primary mangler skill that affected foraging results. Instead things like level, perception, and first aid are what mattered. However level is not professionally biased at all. First Aid was the domain of empaths mostly, and perception was the realm of rogues. So there was no way for rangers to gain an appropriate foraging (or even skinning) advantage through the use of the mangler, when they were supposed to become the most apt profession at both.

Compounding the problem was that the game way back in the 1980’s or early 1990’s was a 20 level game, and 20 levels did not provide enough of a time for significant differentiation in a 1d100 system whereas people of different training paths could become significantly differently skilled. For those who do not grasp this concept, an example would be that with a 1 rank per level difference in skill the total ranks of difference after 20 levels would be only 20 and in a 1d100 system you need differences of 100 before skill diversity really becomes visible. This concept is of course why Gemstone has a system of ranks and skill points so that a greater difference in skill levels can be created at lower trainings.

The PTBs at the time, of which I really doubt any are still around save David Whatley, decided that the best way to accomplish diversity in foraging abilities would be to assign arbitrary professional bonuses and penalties based on how skilled they thought your profession should be. So rangers got a bonus, sorcerers & wizards a penalty, etc. This solution was perfectly fine for the time. The problem is that in the 15-20 years since no one has thought to change it.

Eventually, through a series of changes, we come to a point today where these biases are completely unnecessary and also significantly larger than other similar profession bonuses that exist in today’s game (and they’re rare).

THE PURPOSE OF THE MANGLER

Before anyone tells me these bonuses are fine, especially any GMs, please answer one question. What is the purpose of variable training costs in skills in the mangler?

Maybe I’m crazy, but to me the purpose of rangers having 1/1 in survival in the mangler, which is half as much as the next lowest profession, is to ensure they become the most proficient profession at things like foraging.

The fact is, sorcerers & wizards have to spend nearly 3x as many TPs for our survival ranks. Bards, Rogues, warriors, etc a solid 2x as many TPs. Rangers have a sizeable lead here. Survival is so cheap for them to train in almost all train in it heavily, making them great foragers.

As I stated above, when the foraging biases were created there was no such mangler skill as survival. However now that there is, how can anyone justify the biases when the mangler so handily already takes care of things?

OTHER RANGERLY BONUSES

After the foraging skill was created and the biases set, eventually along came the foraging spell (603). Without this spell it’d already be nearly impossible for many penalized professions to even complete Adventurer’s Guild foraging tasks. However, rangers have additional bonuses through their spell training that professions using it off scrolls or through items do not receive. As such, even without the professional bias, even if rangers had no better TP costs in survival than anyone else, this spell alone would be enough to ensure rangers would remain the preeminent foragers in Elanthia.

It does not stop there though. Rangers also have the ability to SENSE terrain which gives them an indicator of which plants grow there, whereas other professions need to rely on time consuming experimentation to figure such things out.

Finally, for that extra boost, an older ranger can use 650 and achieve the Yierka form and get even better at foraging. No other profession has access to such an ability.

SIZE MATTERS

One of the most discouraging things about these biases is the sheer weight of them. By weight I mean how many ranks of skills or TPs spent does it take to overcome a bias. How would squares feel if, for no good reason, they started 20 ranks in the hole for invoking scrolls with their AS skill or 20 ranks in the hole for using magic items with their MIU skill? How would anyone who isn’t a rogue feel if they needed 40 ranks to use a rolaren lockpick instead of the standard 20?

This is how it feels to be a wizard or sorcerer trying to forage. With each rank helping so little and with such a large bias it takes a substantial effort just to get as good as a level 0 ranger, and at that point you still have a long way to go.

If the bonuses were just a shift of the endroll required to a measly 5 points in either direction, hardly anyone would notice and no one would complain. But that 5 point shift wouldn’t have accomplished their goal 15+ years ago, with no skill backing them up they needed big biases, and no one has of yet changed them since.

THE BOTTOM LINE

Foraging should be a system like picking locks. Rogues do not get a professional bonus to picking locks. However they have the lowest TP costs for perception, picking locks, and disarming traps. They also can triple in these skills when other professions cannot. Their skill training allows them more benefit from the 403/404 spells than other professions, their guild gives them additional lockpicking abilities not available to other professions. As such, even without an arbitrary bonus, they’re easily the best lockpickers in Elanthia.

Rangers likewise have the lowest training costs in survival, they have 3 additional professional abilities that grant them bonuses. They do not need an arbitrary positive bias and other professions certainly do not need arbitrary negative biases.

If GMs really feel this system is so great then perhaps we need more such redundant biases to double up the effect of mangler biases. I would propose that it is only equitable for the changes in regards to AS, MIU, and lockpicking that I mentioned above as hypothetical examples be implemented post haste. After all, if the foraging system is so perfectly balanced as many would have you believe then certainly that same bonus/reward structure deserves, nay demands, to be ported to other skills.

Or maybe.. just maybe… Simutronics can collectively come to the realization that a system that was designed before many current players were even born is probably do to be examined with a critical eye.

Scrap or drastically shrink the foraging biases, they aren’t needed anymore.

I am not asking for work on other aspects of the game to be dropped to help sorcerers, but neither do I sit on my hands when I think of ideas. These are suggestions, not demands, my aim is only to organize ideas and help GMs achieve their circle review when the time comes.

701 - no changes

702 - Add Damage Modifiers.

703 - Increase Duration

704 - Minor Change, Prevent Fast-Decay

705 - Damage Modifiers, AS Based Version

706 - No Change

707 - No Change

708 - Extra damage on really high endrolls

709 - No change, but please make sure it is working properly.

710 - SHIFTing and messaging updates

711 - No change, ignore Herod.

712 - Good spell, but maybe an AS buff

713 - Get rid of Nightmare, roll into curse and then Major Disruption or Essence Ball

714 - Allow more control over unlocking, oh, and release that 25 rune already

715 - Make Curse Verb Based, Roll in Nightmare and Disease and then add Curse Buffs see also Updated Curse Proposal.

716 - Get rid of Disease, roll into curse and then Major Disruption or Essence Ball

717 - No changes

718 - No changes

719 - Allow us to pick damage types, and Chain Reactions.

720 - Add disarming ability. Also flying critters should be more susceptible to a vacuum (duh).

725 - Demon Lore Bonuses and maybe make major demon summoning use this same spell slot (saves a slot).

730 - Usability Improvements, Bug Fixes and fixing healing and durations and alchemy.

740 - Teleporting into restricted areas

NEW SPELLS:

750 or 735 - Lich Form

Also, a different high level spell idea would be a player-unsafe mass target CS spell, 735 possibly.

Sorcerers got the short end of the stick when Forget was taken for Savant reasons and we got corrupt essence instead.

Forget stopped spells from being prepped, Corrupt Essence stops spells from being cast. Obviously Forget is much more useful as, after the duration is over, the critter still needs to prep a spell before they can cast.  With Corrupt Essence the critter can prep during the duration and cast the spell the instant it is over.

What was gained by the lessening of functionality? Nothing.

 I would ask that the duration of this spell be increased from 15 seconds to 30 seconds (or 25) to make up for the usefulness we lost when it was taken by Savants. Or, increase the base duration to 20 seconds with an increase of 1 second for each 10 ranks of mana control skill.

This is already a great spell, however a point was recently brought up on the boards that makes a lot of sense.

 For intra-realm teleporting the sorcerer is still leaving the realm, going to another plane, then coming back. So why do terrestrial barriers matter? Why can a sorcerer not 740 into Darkstone, or the broken lands? They can open a rift in both places, so the magic isn’t blocked on the Elanthia side of things, and it makes no sense that the barriers preventing teleporting should extend into other planes.

Something to chew on.

Lich Form

Sorcery currently has an imbalance in planned high level spells. We know 2 different lores and yet, adding planned and existing spells together, 3 of our post level 20 spells use demonology whereas only 1 uses necromancy. As such it is necessary for us to gain atleast one spell post level 20 that uses necromancy.

We already know animate dead, so what could we learn more? The natural progression of animating someone else, is animating yourself. I have been asking for this spell for years, and now that 350 was just released it appears the time is right to get this spell idea approved and implemented. This spell could be 750, 735, 775, an add-on to 730, or even a guild skill (please, not a guild skill).

There are two ways this spell could be achieved (leaving it up to the GM to decide which to implement), the first is that it is worn as a defensive spell like any other defensive spell and when the sorcerer dies while the spell is active it activates. The second method is that the spell is infused into an artifact of sometype that the sorcerer must keep on their person, when they die the artifact activates and casts the spell upon them. I feel the artifact method is superior.

The spell would temporarily bind the sorcerer’s wounds using necromancy magic (nice messaging here, magic sticking wounds together and all that) and provide the sorcerer with the ability to control his animated self.

Balance and Mechanical Benefit

The main mechanical benefit of this spell would be avoiding decay and item loss and having quicker rescues. The professions are already very well balanced for hunting prowess, asking for a super powerful attack or defense spell for a high level slot, asking for anything that helps you avoid death, is going to be difficult. This spell, with it’s requirement that you die every time you use it, makes it unique in the game (or, was unique until 350) and that requirement of death also ensures it doesn’t help prevent death, and so should also justify a good deal of power (like 350 now).

So, the main benefit to a sorcerer will be in preventing post-death item loss & decay. Other professions may (typically) cry foul at this unique ability (no longer unique), however it isn’t really unique (heh). All voln members can self-lk, thereby preventing decay (if not providing for expedient rescue). Additionally anyone who knows 217 also has access to self LK. Finally, anyone can avoid item loss by decaying and paying a couple 100k to the priestess. So in reality all this does is save the sorcerer time and money on priestess potions. Not unlike how 740 saves money on chronomages, everyone can travel, we just do it for less with a little added convenience.

Also, this spell would have a duration so it wouldn’t be 100% fool proof. If you died in some very far away place you may still end up decaying because you couldn’t get out in time.

I would propose a duration based on necromancy lore ranks, the formula of which can be figured out later. I would estimate a user with no necromancy ranks having a 2 minute duration whereas a user with 100 might max out at 15-20 minutes.

Issues

How do you ensure that a sorcerer who just died in an area as a person fully spelled and alive doesn’t get torn to pieces as a lich just risen? We cannot make a sanct like clerics do, sancting isn’t our thing. Currently critters ignore animated players. This would be alright, but if you think about it it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense considering critters do not ignore animated critters. Still, if you want the easy way out, continuing this ignore feature is the way to go and the rest of this post is mostly unnecessary.

However… another option is to simply have the magic of the spell provide the lich-form sorcerer with unique abilities and the strength of a corpse.

The same artifact used to cast the spell upon the sorcerer could also be used to recast other defensive spells.

Then you could award physical traits to the sorcerer based on necromancy lore. Ranks in CM, Dodge, all weapon abilities, moc, physical fitness, maybe even dfredux.

This would allow the sorcerer to then defend himself and fight critters still (perhaps exacting revenge on what killed him) while in lich form. Thus critters wouldn’t have to just ignore the corpse, they could engage it.

This opens up a whole slew of other possibilities:

LICH ATTACKS: While in lich form there are 3 attack verbs you may use, none use mana, but all cause a hard RT. All attack damages are based on a level comparison manuever roll.

Slap/punch: If barehanded you may slap/punch, causing slashing/crushing damage and possibly disease.
Scream: A player friendly area-affect fear attack.
Stare: Like 717

LICH IMMUNITES: While a lich you are immune to:
Bloodloss (you’re already dead).
Stuns (you’re already dead).
Fear Attacks (Things are afraid of you, not the other way around, plus you’re already dead, what is left to fear?)

Additionally while in lich form I would say you could drag others, eat & drink herbs & lk.

However, I would put the following limits if all this were done:

1. No Experience from anything killed.
2. No searching any corpses.
3. No casting spells.

So, yes, it has a lot of power, and some might even say that they’re “undead” powers, but no, they’re necromancy powers. All those special abilities are powered by the necromancy magic of the spell, not by unholy life. All that power is justified by the spell restrictions, the fact that you can gain no benefit from the creatures you kill while in that form, and the fact that you have to die first to even use the form.

So ya, lich form would be close to god form if it did everything I suggest, and that kind of power is beyond anything found elsewhere in the game right now, but all the limitations and requirements are also beyond what is out there currently, I think it is justified, sure, 350 doesn’t do all that, but it raises you, this merely lets you walk your corpse out by yourself, you’d still need a raise from a cleric or paladin or NPC or scroll-bearing-friend.

Or… the easy way out of continuing the way critters ignore animated PCs is also an option and just forget about all the combat mechanics.

Just figured I’d ask again.

I’d just like to be able to pick which spell on a scroll I unlock. Thats all, relatively small thing, would make it much easier to use though. I wouldn’t mind also being about to do the same with when charging as well.

I know similar functionality exists to pick spells off a scroll.

You glance down to see an illuminated scroll in your right hand and a runestone in your left hand.
>tap runestone
You tap your illuminated scroll with your runestone. The runes of the Interference spell glow brightly for a brief moment before fading. They still feel warm to the touch though.
>tap runestone
You tap your illuminated scroll with your runestone. The runes of the Spirit Warding II spell glow brightly for a brief moment before fading. They still feel warm to the touch though.

Just something like that. Please

Dark Catalyst current uses elemental lores in a small way for damage improvements, I do not know if these lores are worth it in a cost/benefit ratio.  I think it could possibly use mana controls instead for damage improvements.

 However, someone posted a very nice idea on the boards, what if damage was controlled by mana controls, but what lores gave us was the option to make all crits from the same element? Or even still have lores do the damage, mana controls the mana return, and add the all same element feature still.

 So, with a certain amount of lore, a sorcerer can cast 719 with fire to have all the criticals be fire based. It makes sense, if the spell has within it the ability to do any elemental type of damage, surely with enough lore a skilled sorcerer can direct the type of damage he desires.

If you gave us this kind of flexibility with the spell I don’t think it’d need any damage upgrades from what it already has. This would also prevent sorcerers with 4 choices to pursue in regards to lore, and those choices will foster more intra-profession diversity, which is a very good thing.

Someone, I forget who, posted that 704 should stop “rapid-decaying” creatures from decaying so rapidly. I agree, it should, lets make it so.

 Also, the manuever based aspect of 704 is still waiting to be implemented.

 Otherwise, great spell.

As mentioned in this post I would like to see Curse changed to be verb based and then have 716 and 713 rolled into it as those two spells are just novelty attack spells and more or less match all the other curses in power.

This would free up 713 and 716 for different attack spells. Presently there is a gap in the sorcerer profession, we have low level attack spells that work fairly universally, we have DC, which is expensive and only really works on magical critters… with mana (on magical critters with no mana… often 2nd/third casts etc, it works for crap), and then FI, which is also mana intensive, risky to use to many areas, has many immune creatures, and of course leaves no treasure a large portion of the time.

What we miss is a mid-range attack spell that does damage on non-magical beasties, as well as a nice AS based spell.

713/716: Major Disruption, is a perfect solution. It more or less would look like the empath spell Wither but with slightly less power. Where the empath spell Wither is more or less a souped up version of 705, this spell would be a souped up version of 702 with multiple damage rolls on each cast. Also, like with my 702 proposal this spell would be modified by mana controls to increase damage possibilities.

Credit to Herod for coming up with this idea.

713/716: Essence Ball. The other option for these spell slots is a multi-fuction AS based attack spell of reasonable power (13 mana spell slot = good powered bolt spell, 16 mana spell slot = better bolt). Long ago I proposed a spell call psychic bolt that would hit the target with a ball of darkess, cause damage, and cause status ailments at the same time based on subsequent CS rolls (very much like empathic assault). I went through multiple iterations of this idea but the one I think I liked the most is the one where the target was afflicted with a random curse, or on really bad hits multiple random curses. So, you would have damage probably similar to 111, with maybe critters without souls and undead having a partial immunity, there would be splashes, like with other ball spells, with the splash targets being damaged, but also a small chance of being hit by a curse, then the main target would always be hit by atleast 1 random curse (shorter duration than a normal curse though, like how web-bolt gives shorter duration webs).

Damage (and splashes) would be increased by mana controls in aggregate.

I’ve already posted about making curse verb based but what about doing more with it, what if when a curse was self-cast on the sorcerer it gave them the opposite of the penalty? See, the sorcerer circle has but 1 buff in the entire circle, which is last among all spell circles in the game (except maybe the old 800 circle, which no profession has anymore). But how to add another one? I like this idea…

Instead of making you clumsy, self-casting the clumsy curse would give you a small +5 rank bonus to climbing (note, climbing potions are sold for cheap at like every merchant event now). Or protection from knockdown manuevers.

Instead of making you itchy, self-casting the fleas curse would give you… well I can’t think of a good one for this. The main problem with fleas is you drop your gear, so I thought maybe a bonus against disarm, or a bonus to strength, or to CM. I don’t know, maybe something else entirely. Maybe protection against distraction attacks.

Instead of giving you disease (remember, we’re going to make disease a curse), you gain an immunity to disease.

Instead of giving you a DS penalty, you get a DS increase (small in comparison to the penalty).

Instead of giving you an AS penalty, you get an AS bonus (small in comparison to the penalty).

Instead of giving you a TD penalty, you get a TD bonus (probably about the same, its only 15).

Instead of giving you a Nightmare (remember, we’re making nightmare a curse), you get resistance to fear based attacks (like what bravery gets you).

So, what are the tradeoffs? Well, a sorcerer can only choose 1 curse to wear at a time, it should have a decent duration though, refreshable, but not stackable. Like 1130 in duration I think. So it isn’t like you could wear all those buffs, just one, and obviously this would all be self cast only.

The other trade off is, based on mana controls and sorcerer spells known, there is a chance of failure every time you cast the spell, and if you fail you get the negative, not the positive, curse effect instead. This chance can be trained away, not unlike the chance to train away armor hinderance etc, but there will always be a minimum failure rate.